106 replies to this topic

[alex28]

Hello,

First of all i would like to apologize to all the people that were caught in the middle of this.
I would also like to apologize to the Spanish people that felt offended in any way and to the hard working people in subtitulos (people that never "stole" subtitles, and to whom "mediocre" was never intended).

The issue was not only about stealing subtitles, it was about cooperation between the two websites.
The only reply i got from Gabriel was on their forums. After replying he closed the thread so i couldn't reply back (there goes cooperation).

This is my official reply.

Whatever you do from now one is of no concern to us.
Ansset (a subtitulos.es user) said 98(?)% of the subtitles you use are from other places (probably 2% are stolen..but hey, who's counting?) and not Addic7ed.
I think yesterday we proved something else.
Whether you decide to let your users do the same from now on, it concerns you and only you.
Our users are right and they do deserve more and, in the end, people will know who the source is (as a Spanish friend said); no matter how much you try to hide it.

We never considered you competition simply because subtitulos is only addressed to Spanish people.
This action was not to take you down or put you *out of the game*, or ruin your reputation.


We never sent trolls to ruin your website. Users that left Subtitulos left because of you, mostly because you want to be the only one
that has total control over that website. I can't demand you bring more moderators, since i have no power to do that, but i can give you a friendly advice: being alone in this job
is bad for everyone; you have more to work on and you'll make users unhappy.

If you decide to cooperate i'll answer your emails like i answer every email and i'll try to solve the whatever problem there might be.
However, if you decide to play alone like you did since 2008, it's your choice and i won't mind.

You stated in every place you wrote about this issue that we bring false accusations. I brought proof ( http://dl.dropbox.co...87/addic7ed.rar) but apparently it was not enough.
We know the truth and so do you... but as i said that's the smallest problem at this point. This is the last time i'm talking about subtitulos (you don't even mention our name).



This being said, Addic7ed will be back to work as usual.
I read almost everything i could yesterday. Some people said this is a publicity stunt, some said we got greedy and did it for the money, some said we're drama queens, some insulted honeybunny and so on.
There's no way i can convince such people otherwise. Some said "the customer is the king". I remind you you're not our customers and we owe nothing to anyone.
Time will tell and we will prove once again that our contribution to the scene is just because we care.

I explained the donation widget so people would stop saying we asked for 2500$ because we're greedy. I rushed things because i want to bring new features to you before the end of 2010.
If trying to pay a coder and getting things done ASAP is a crime, then i'm guilty of it.

I can assure you that the changes we'll do will benefit everyone. We will not only try to cover all the shows, but we'll also provide you a complete tv show website (except downloading of course).
If you have anymore questions i'd be happy to hear them. Same thing for suggestions or complains.

It's sad that people turn against you when you don't deliver what they need. You need to understand we do it for free and we do it in our free time.
We don't owe you anything. Demanding something from us is totally wrong. We are already doing our best and killing most of our free time so you can translate or view your shows.

I would like to thank the Addic7ed team for doing a great job, our friends from yyets.net, subs-team.tv, ITASA, InSUBs, thesubfactory, seriesyonkins,l for their support, the users that sent happy thoughts, all the new people i met yesterday on the forums and shared their thoughts.
Also, some special thanks go to the Spanish community from mediavida.com for supporting us (unofficially).

If you ever have questions regarding addic7ed please contact me using:

1. Email: alex28@addic7ed.com
2. Forum: http://www.sub-talk.net
3. Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/addic7ed
4. Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/addic7ed


I created sub-talk for all the people that work with subtitles (no matter the group they're coming from). Together we can do more and we already proved that by having lots of friends from different communities.
If there's ever something concerning you feel free to come and discuss here. We'll always try to help.

I'm sorry if i didn't reply to everyone yesterday. It was a very busy day.
This thread or the old one regarding this matter will ALWAYS stay open :-)

Best regards,

--alex

The picture is funnier if you make some connections.

[kabracity]

Happy to read the news. I didn't read Ansset's post, but if he said so he has absolutely no clue of the truth. Addic7ed is the main source of subs nowadays.

Keep on going with your great work.

Best regards.

[progsup]

Hi Alex,

I tried to think of a positive solution for the credit problem and I am reposting my idea here so it won't get lost in the barrage of the other thread.


I am sad to see the subtitle community in this state.

The issue seems to be the credit going to the person that actually created the subtitle.
The second issue seems to be subtitle integrity.

These issues can be resolved using the same methods we use daily to verify the binary contents of our favorite show is intact.
By adding parity files to the download. This is the basic idea.

Second you start a Logo “Honest subtitles”. This logo will be awarded to cooperating site admins. Subtitle users can look for and find “Honest subtitle sites” where you will know that a subtitle has not be tampered with. You can verify this because it is distributed in some kind of archive format including .par2 and .sfv files.

Personally I would use RSA technology. The subtitle writer creates a key pair and signs it’s translation text using his secret key. His public key, published somewhere, can then be used to verify both the contents and the origin of the subtitle text. To make this easy for the subtitle user, you could write a small program which will take the subtitle text and the verification signature and does it for him.

WE ALL BENEFIT. The writers will have the proper credit, good willing site admins will have their proud logo and we subtitle users will be assured of quality.


Soneone replied to me:
>>You really think that 99% of the users will care if the .srt file that they are downloading is signed and came from the one that did the actual translation?
>>Let's go further into this idea of yours:what about the people that use addic7ed english subs for foreign language translation? How will your PKI solution work there?
>>People will either deside to credit addic7ed as the source or be asses and claim to be the the source of the subs. Whatever you do there is no way to control that.


My Answer:
I can not speak for the mind of other subtitle users. If i guess it might be that their interest is primerly in availability and quality. Using "Honest subtiles" will also ensure some level of quality.

Concerning other translators (and or additional work), make them part of the system. To create a new "Honest subtitle" you will have to use the software where your additions are a separated from the original (known as diffs) and can be merged into them delivering the new version of the translation text. This is common practice using any revision system. The original translation is still available and thus verifiable. The advantage here is that other translators can sign their "diffs" and be given due credit without compromising the original author.

[havrepus]

Best regards!
Keep up the great work. We sure appreciate what you all do!

[JustinX]

Yay! Great news indeed. One day without your subs brought total chaos to the entire subbing world. Point definitely proven.
And I'll take this opportunity to once again thank you guys for your dedication and all the hard work. It is MUCH appreciated, by many many people all around the world, and on a daily basis.

[kabracity]

@progsup I think u're missing a point here. A person could just use public key to decipher the subs, and just copy and paste them elsewhere. In the end, we're dealing with plain text. And in the end, keep in mind that you're dealing with the average user; his main goal is to have the subs in an easy way, "Honest subtitle" or not.

[Morph]

alex28, on 20 November 2010 - 12:07 PM, said:

We never considered you competition simply because subtitulos is only addressed to Spanish people.

Well your actions sure said otherwise. You gave them a lot free publicity. I for one haven't even heard about them till yesterday.

alex28, on 20 November 2010 - 12:07 PM, said:

It's sad that people turn against you when you don't deliver what they need. You need to understand we do it for free and we do it in our free time.
We don't owe you anything. Demanding something from us is totally wrong. We are already doing our best and killing most of our free time so you can translate or view your shows.

You do what you do for the credit and fame. No one asked you to do it. Yes people are gratefull but don't push it.

[honeybunny]

Morph, on 20 November 2010 - 12:28 PM, said:

You do what you do for the credit and fame. No one asked you to do it. Yes people are gratefull but don't push it.

For fame? We do it for fame? Wow.. I am famous on the internet. My life makes so much sense. Yes. You are so right.

[Morph]

progsup, on 20 November 2010 - 12:19 PM, said:

Soneone replied to me:
>>You really think that 99% of the users will care if the .srt file that they are downloading is signed and came from the one that did the actual translation?
>>Let's go further into this idea of yours:what about the people that use addic7ed english subs for foreign language translation? How will your PKI solution work there?
>>People will either deside to credit addic7ed as the source or be asses and claim to be the the source of the subs. Whatever you do there is no way to control that.


My Answer:
I can not speak for the mind of other subtitle users. If i guess it might be that their interest is primerly in availability and quality. Using "Honest subtiles" will also ensure some level of quality.

As I told you earlier: If someone has the cleartext subtitle he can copy/paste it and there is no way to stop him.
What you are suggesting works only if users would care if the sub came from the original creator or not. 99% of users don't care.

In other news: all the music groups in the world released statements that they will stop making new music because what they have made so far is pirated on the internet.

[smbsid]

Finally, end of the strike.

I agree with you, people that take your work and modify it should at least give credits....

[Cattz]

 

alex28, on 20 November 2010 - 12:07 PM, said:

First of all i would like to apologize to all the people that were caught in the middle of this.
I would also like to apologize to the Spanish people that felt offended in any way and to the hard working people in subtitulos (people that never "stole" subtitles, and to whom "mediocre" was never intended).
[...]

I only want to say you one thing: thank you very much for your patience and your good manners during this issue. Today I respect you above most of the people involved.


Has been a pleasure to discuss with you.

[alex28]

Cattz, on 20 November 2010 - 12:37 PM, said:

I only want to say you one thing: thank you very much for your patience and your good manners during this issue. Today I respect you above most of the people involved.


Has been a pleasure to discuss with you.

thank you :-)

[JAYBU]

Hi Addic7ed team

This strike helped me to discover 2 things:

+ the existence of Addic7ed : I mostly took my subs on tvsubs.net and subscene, and I saw addic7ed credits all the time I just thought it was the name of one guy
+ that Addic7ed is the center of the subtitling world: it was a total blackout on the subtitles websites yesterday, no new subtitles I was lost, kinda weird that a few people of one website do the hard world to supply the whole internet


So I'm glad your back and thank you for your work

[Morph]

honeybunny, on 20 November 2010 - 12:31 PM, said:

For fame? We do it for fame? Wow.. I am famous on the internet. My life makes so much sense. Yes. You are so right.

No you do it because you are all philantropist. But then why would you care if someone used your subs and didn't give you credit for that? Hmm...

[alex28]

Morph, on 20 November 2010 - 12:43 PM, said:

No you do it because you are all philantropist. But then why would you care if someone used your subs and didn't give you credit for that? Hmm...

BECAUSE she works for them!
She wakes up at 7AM so you can have subtitles when you wake up! Just shut up if you have nothing smart to say, can you?

[havrepus]

Now you certainly made my day! Again. Thanks! And thanks for being smart and sensible enough to keep your heads frosty in a way too heated discussion. Wish there be more people like that..

[Morph]

alex28, on 20 November 2010 - 12:45 PM, said:

BECAUSE she works for them!
She wakes up at 7AM so you can have subtitles when you wake up! Just shut up if you have nothing smart to say, can you?

Ad hominem attacks (giving me negative points and telling me to shut up) just proves you have no arguments against what I'm saying.
I have no problem with you doing this for fame or credit. That's normal. Just don't act like you are doing this cause you just want to help people. Your actions from the last two days clearly state why you are doing all this.

[KArkhon]

Good to have you back. I don't understand how some people have the nerve to call you greedy after all your hard work and asking nothing in return (other than funds to keep the website running FOR US).

BTW Do you plan on adding some other service for contributions, some people hate paypal and don't use it, and I live in a country that's not supported by them.

[unocuatro]

Only a few hours strike !
Come to France to learn how to make a real strike :-)

[Zositoo]

Hey guys, i'm from argentina, i'm so glad this got back to normal, those idiots from the other website are the worst, even their subtitles sucks, you can ask anyone, they care about rapidity, and they don't care about making two sentences having meaning.

This thursday was awful, not even a subtitle in the whole WWW. I used to subtitle to, for Dark-Ville, and those jack***, stole us our subtitles too.




Addic7ed king of SUBTITLES!